Sep 25, 2021
A powerful conversation with Tough Girl Challenges founder and Tough Girl Podcast host, SarahWilliams. As friends, we easily cover multiple topics across ourconversations. These include how to meet fear head-on and deal withit; why Sarah is inspired by two specific female rolemodels/mentors and the moments in her life that nearly broke her.Interestingly, she elaborates on how those darkest times taught herthe most and benefitted her in ways she could never have imagined.There are references to many long-distance trails, in the UK andoverseas, with the Appalachian Trail being lauded by Sarah as themost life-changing for her, personally. A female adventureepic.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 00:09
Well, hello, and welcome back to the HeadRightOut Podcast.My name is Zoe Langley-Wathen and I am your host. This is arelatively new show, and I hope if you're here for the first timethat you will consider hitting that follow button in yourpodcast app, because we need to get as many subscribers andfollowers as we possibly can to grow the show.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 00:34
I'm really excited today, because we're going to be talking toSarah Williams, who is the founder of Tough Girl Challenges, andthe host of the amazing Tough Girl Podcast. It's a really powerfulepisode, and although we're two friends, and we giggle a lot, andwe have a little bit of a chatter here and there, we do go intosome deeper stuff. Sarah gives some really strong messages of howto look at fear and how to reframe it. We discuss why so many womenseem to be hesitant to adventure and where that fear might actuallycome from. Sarah talks about her passion for wanting to set upTough Girl Challenges, and the podcast way back six, seven yearsago now. I asked her about who her role models are and that was areally fascinating part of the conversation. So I hope you'll stickwith us to listen.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 01:29
Today, here is a beautiful, beautiful day. It's September. It'sthe seventh of September, and we have just got the hottest weatherat the moment and the tops of the trees are changing. There'shardly a breeze out there and the canal is still. We've had somedog barking issues. So I will say, you might hear birds tweetingand that probably isn't a problem. But if you get someinterruptions partway through the recording, I apologise becausethere was a bit of a dog pack issue out on the towpath partwaythrough the recording. So yes, without further ado, I'm going tohead off into the introduction.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 02:16
Okay, well welcome everybody to another episode of theHeadRightOut Podcast. I am so excited today. I can't begin to tellyou I have got a very good friend of mine, an inspirational ladyand all round adventurer, challenge inspirer. She is an author.She's an award winner. I'm going to go through her bio in a minutebut we have got Sarah Williams, the host of the Tough Girl Podcastand founder of Tough Girl Challenges here. So good morning,Sarah.
Sarah Williams 02:47
Good morning. How you doing?
Zoe Langley-Wathen 02:48
I'm very well thank you. So I am going to introduce you, becauseI just felt all of the things that you have achieved over the lastsix or seven years just needs to be acknowledged and I don't wantto miss anything out for certain.
Sarah Williams 03:02
I'm getting ready to be embarrassed and ready to cringe. It's avery British thing like oh my god, okay. I'm ready for it.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 03:08
You've got to soak this up and enjoy. So Tough Girl Challengeswas started in 2014 as a way of motivating and inspiring women andgirls. My mission is to increase the amount of female role modelsin the media with a focus on women who do adventures and undertakebig physical challenges. I am the host of the two times awardwinning Tough Girl Podcast where I interview inspirational femaleexplorers, adventurers, athletes and everyday women who haveovercome great challenges. The podcast is listened to in 174countries around the world and has passed 1.8 million downloads.Based on monthly downloads. The Tough Girl Podcast is in the top15% of podcasts globally. I completed the Marathon des Sables inApril 2016. That's six marathons in six days across the SaharaDesert. In 2017, I through hiked the Appalachian Trail solo andunsupported. That's 2190 miles in 100 days, which I also dailyvlogged. In 2018 I cycled over 4000 kilometers from Vancouver,Canada via the Pacific Coast Highway to Cabo San Lucas in Mexico. Ihave a master's in Women and Gender Studies from LancasterUniversity 2018 with my dissertation focusing on Women, Adventureand Fear. I'm a qualified yoga instructor and personal trainer(2019). In September 2019, I walked the Camino Portuguese - 675kilometres from Lisbon, Portugal to Santiago de Compostela inSpain, and that was sponsored by challenge with Cicerone. I endedthe year by walking the Lycian Way in Turkey. In 2020. I started inAustralia walking the Overland Track in Tasmania. And now tocelebrate the six-year anniversary of the Tough Girl Podcast I amundertaking six UK-based challenges: The Tough Girl AdventureSeries, also sponsored by Cicerone. They include, and we're goingto talk about these in a moment, the Anglesey Coastal Path, theSouth Downs Way, the Pilgrim's Way, the West Highland Way, climbingBen Nevis and walking the Great Glen Way. Wow. You were smiling andwe were like 'yay, yay'. This is such a wonderful, awesome list ofachievements. I feel inspired. I have to say Sarah, all the waythrough, I've been following you since we met in 2014, or was it2015, I don't know?
Sarah Williams 04:59
It was 2015 at the Women's Adventure Expo.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 04:59
Yeah. I've always found you to be somebody who inspires me.You're almost like a mentor from afar. Each time, I see youdeveloping and growing, through these challenges and activitiesthat you're doing. And your masters in Women and Gender Studies...that absolutely fascinated me. Because you are delving deeper intothe area you're interested in. So, the area that you are interestedin... tell us more... what is it?
Sarah Williams 04:59
I'm actually getting emotional, I'm going to start crying soon.It's like 'oh, my goodness'!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 06:06
So yeah, where does Sarah Williams come from? What is it thatyou're interested in? Why? Why?
Sarah Williams 06:22
Oh, my God, the why the big question. I think I've always beenfascinated by the motivation and the inspiration side of things inso that personal self development. So I was always sat with likeTony Robbins and reading the secret. And I used to apply it to mylife when I worked in banking down in London. So that was like abig part of me. I think one of the things that I noticed when I wasin banking was just a) like how male dominated it was, andobviously all the sexism and misogyny and everything else that wasgoing on that maybe that I don't think I really understood when Iwas twenty-four or twenty-five, about what I was experiencing. AndI think the other side of my personality was doing these quiteextreme things to shock people like wanting to run marathons, or todoing these, like these Tough Mudder races, or you know, theobstacle course races and people being like, "oh, but you're soyou're so girly, and you're so feminine, and you love the colorpink, and yet you like running ridiculous distances and doing thesecrazy challenges".
Sarah Williams 07:18
I realised in my early 30s, that I needed to make somechanges in my life. And honestly, I'm more than happy to talk inmore detail about that. But to cut the long story short, I ended upleaving my job in banking in 2013, didn't know what I wanted to dowith my life, I ended up going travelling, spending time inAustralia, heading over to Kilimanjaro to go and climb Kilimanjaro,I spent some time in South America. And I think for the first timea long time, I really started asking myself these importantquestions. What is your WHY? How do you want to spend your life,like what do you want the next ten-twenty years to look like whenyou are on your death bed looking back over your life? And what doyou want to have experienced? And I've never really thought aboutit so much. I'd always just been on this path and just followingthis journey on this route, like I was on a river, but I didn'tknow where I was going. I hadn't really thought it all through. Andwhen I was over in South America, I finally got this time to thinkand reflect and to really dig deeply into these subjects. And forme that involved a lot of journaling, a lot of writing, it's been alot of internal self reflection, which sounds wishy washy, but manypeople don't spend that time getting to know themselves. And Iasked myself those questions. And for me, it was about this traveland exploration. And it was about challenging myself, it was aboutadventure. But on the flip side of that it was the motivation andthe inspiration. And I wanted to encourage other young womenand girls and I knew that I was very fortunate.
Sarah Williams 08:41
I've always been a confident person. And when I was 18, I wenttraveling a lot of it solo by myself through like Southeast Asia,Australia, New Zealand and Camp America. I think that really helpedme positively in the business world. And I remember justinteracting with a lot of women who maybe didn't necessarily havethat confidence to go after things. I couldn't really understandit. And I wanted to help them to take that next step to be moreconfident and to embrace challenge and to say yes to differentexperiences, because I've never had a problem of saying yes. Like,you want to go traveling? Yes, you want to bungee jump? Yes. Youwant to jump out of a plane and skydive? Yes. Like I would alwayssay yes. And want to experience these, these opportunities. Andthat's how Tough Girl Challenges came together. It was my love ofadventure and challenge and wanting to to inspire women and girls.And it's definitely been a journey that's evolved. I'm sure I'vementioned here, I started initially blogging and nobody read myblog, not even my mom because she wasn't even technical. And youknow, as I went on and did more things, I eventually started thepodcast and started sharing more voices and started taking on morepersonal challenges like you read out. So it's definitely been thisvery long and winding journey. And I almost want to say at thispoint as well. I always hate for people. It's very easy, I thinkfor now for people to look at my life and just be like, 'oh, it'seasy for Sarah. She's off doing these adventures and challenges andshe's being sponsored and she's got these millions of downloads',but actually, I started with zero, you know. I didn't knowanything, I'd built my website, I didn't know how to podcast, Ilearned it all on this on this journey over the past seven years.And it's been seven years of consistency, seven years of hard workseven years of dedication. The ups and the downs, and the setbacksand the obstacles, and the challenges and the barriers, and thesacrifices, and everything else that's gone on that maybe peopledon't necessarily see. So it hasn't always been this smooth journeyof just like, ooh, I want to become an adventurer and motivationalspeaker and travel the world doing adventures.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 10:37
I think that's what's always struck me about you, Sarah. Is thatyour commitment, your absolute drive and commitment to what you doand what you believe in is there. You show up every day. There'snever any 'oh, I don't feel well today, or I'm too tired', or or ifthere is you tell us on Instagram stories. Which is great.
Sarah Williams 10:59
I'm having a pajama day!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 11:00
Yeah, that's right. But you still show up, and and you're stillso committed, and I think those six-seven years of hard work isabsolutely clear. You know, you don't get to where you are nowwithout having worked through that.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 11:17
What I'm interested in actually, is that you said you've alwaysbeen resilient, you've always been confident. Maybe you didn't sayresilient. But you said you've always been confident. Now youworked in a very male-dominated environment in banking, I'massuming? Did you find that that toughened your resilience, yourmental resilience? Or were you already resilient, prior tothat?
Sarah Williams 11:42
I think it to be honest, I think it almost broke me.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 11:44
Really?
Sarah Williams 11:45
Yeah, I think I was confident, I think a lot of it had to dowith my parents, like being part of sporting teams. I was privatelyeducated and there is something about privately educated, you dojust build the confidence and the network and the connections withit. And I think traveling solo really helped me and I, and I wouldthink to myself, so if I, if I was in a tough situation, like abusiness meeting, or whatever, where it's just me, youngest female,everyone else is male right in their forties. And I was thinking,I'm gonna have to have some difficult conversations, I'd alwaysreflect back and think, Sarah, you can handle this. You traveledthe world, when you were eighteen. You can handle this. Stuff likethat. So it was always building on experiences and everything else.But I think my resilience and my toughness did almost break mebecause I couldn't understand why I wasn't happy when I was givingit my all and from the outside everyone else thought that I shouldbe happy with with what I was doing. And I don't know if peoplework normal jobs doing a nine-to-five. Well, mine was more likesix-to-11. But you have these Sunday night blues, where you'reliterally just worrying and anxious about the week ahead. 'What doI need to do? What do I need to achieve? What have I got to getdone? I've got so much time to do it'. It was almost this cyclethat you were trapped in week-by-week, month-by-month, and thenyear-by-year and I wanted to tough it out. Why wasn't I tough? Whycouldn't I handle it? Why? I felt like a massive failure. When Ileft I thought I obviously can't hack it in this world. But it wasmore about I suppose my mental health like the more I reflect Ithink as I've as it's further in the distance, it's easier to lookback with more of a discerning eye and be like, actually no I wasreally very, very unhappy. And I'm so glad I left. I just don'tknow where I'd be. So yeah, I think it almost broke me.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 13:36
Did you, in going off, because you then decided to travel, youmust have had a period where you were almost making friends withyourself or re-finding yourself because you just said that you feltlike a failure. You were mentally broken. But you had come to feellike you were a failure because you weren't meeting whatever youwere supposed to be meeting that was just completely impossible. Soyeah, did you in those travels get to a point where you refoundyourself.
Sarah Williams 14:04
I did, but it probably took me until after the AppalachianTrail.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 14:08
Okay,
Sarah Williams 14:09
I know that sounds like a really long time. So I left my job in2013. It wasn't until probably the end of 2017 where I started tosort of accept myself. I think the key reason for that is that deepreflection time that I got on the Appalachian Trail being out innature every day. Wild camping night after night. Not showering fornine days. Pushing your body, you know, really physically very,very hard. But also it was this quality time to really think,because I was I was still reflecting on myself and I think Idefinitely after I left work I felt so lost, like what am I goingto do with my life and I didn't have a purpose. I think for mefiguring out the mission with Tough Girl Challenges to motivateinspire women girls, I suddenly had this very clear picture of themission of what I wanted to do. What my purpose was going to be.Getting to know myself, and really know myself... what am Iactually like? What drives me? What are the previous experienceswhich I needed to really reflect back on and do a lot of deep selfanalysis, to be honest?
Sarah Williams 14:17
I think sometimes this can be a very scary thing because a lotof people don't like being alone with their own thoughts and havingto actually process it. For me I found it just empowering wherewalking every day, just letting these situations ruminate throughmy head, how I responded, how I acted, things which had happened tome which had impacted on me and made me feel upset, unworthy orworthless or like a failure... and managing to get through all ofthat and get to a point and this will sound wishy-washy, but I knowmyself. I love myself. Not in that arrogant, "I love myself, I lovemyself", but as in deep down, I know my value, I know my worth, Iknow what I'm doing. I'm just very comfortable being me and beingcomfortable with the decisions that I have made and embracingthem.
Sarah Williams 16:12
There was this element where I was embarrassed about what I wasdoing. What are people going to think of me? What if I fail? Peopleare going to judge me because I used to have this high-flyingcareer and now suddenly I'm sleeping in the woods and I want to bean adventurer and I want to be a motivational speaker and I wasworried and scared about other people's judgements. But now I'vegot to that point where other people's judgements of me haveabsolutely NOTHING to do with me at all, and I'm the one who's gotto live with myself.
Sarah Williams 16:41
So yeah, it took a long time but the Appalachian Trail wasreally key for that. Those three months of walking and deep, deepthinking and processing was really powerful for me, like cringey asit is to say but, life-changing. It really was a life-changingexperience.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 17:04
Yep, it's profound. That is absolutely profound, because I don'tknow about you but I had never experienced that level of solo...solo company. That sounds bizarre but that time with myself when Iwas walking my first long-distance walk, that time with yourself iscompletely something that you haven't experienced before and youdon't realise at the time perhaps that you're going to come awayfeeling differently, acting differently with a differentperspective on your life. Like you say, it's those deep analyticalmoments. I found, (I call it my Outdoor Medicine now), but I findthat time in the outdoors is massively helpful for problemsolving. So if I've got something I'm trying to figure out, myhead's not clear or I'm writing and I'm not quite sure what I'mgoing to be writing next, I can just go and walk and just keep myhead empty and then all of a sudden those answers will just filterthrough. And it's the longer walks that that seems to happen on...not the going out for a day... although it is still helpful... butit's the longer walks that are the real deep dive in, and it soundslike that's what the Appalachian Trail did for you.
Sarah Williams 17:04
Oh, a hundred percent. I totally agree, like the OutdoorMedicine, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I almost want everyone toexperience this! Go on a long-distance walk. Multi-day hike andadventure and just be alone, know that you can survive and getthrough it, it's because it's so empowering and that's how youbuild that confidence, knowing you can go out there and look afteryourself. You don't need to rely on anybody else. You've got thetools and the skills to do it.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 17:04
Wow, yeah. Absolutely that. So why are so many women inparticular, do you think then scared of trying adventure, going onan adventure? I know you've perhaps touched on this area in yourmasters as well. I'm just keen to know where the fear comesfrom.
Sarah Williams 18:57
I think it I think it starts really young age actually. It'ssometimes drilled into girls, you know, protect yourself, don't goout there. Be careful in the dark. Don't do this. Don't do that,and it's almost like these micro aggressions these micro comments.I still get comments now, 'aren't you scared of doing by yourself?'and ooh you know, this is like walking in England or something oryou know, fly, you know, going travelling. And so people's commentscan get into your head, and people don't realise that you'resocially conditioned from quite a young age to behave and act acertain way and not put yourself in these risky, challengingsituations. And it's really difficult to be strong enough to breakout of that mould, and that's not to say that I'm not scared when Igo on adventures and challenges because you do have to follow yourgut instinct. But men just don't understand this. As a womantravelling when I was on the South Downs Way, and I was looking forsomewhere to wild camp and a guy had walked past me and then hewalked past the other way. And I'm now in my head thinking well, Ican't stop now. I've got to keep on walking. And so he's ahead ofme and I actually I filmed him because I thought well, I don't knowknow who he is. So I ended up filming him from behind. So peoplewould have a record, if something did happen. This is what goesthrough my head, I had to keep on walking, he pulled to the side tofiddle with his shoe laces. And now I'm ahead of him, which to mefelt like this psychological game. So he's behind me, I can't stopwalking, I've already walked 20 miles with a heavy backpack. Andnow I'm having to like, speed up, go faster, you know, to get toget ahead. And there's this constant awareness that you need tohave like, even in when I was cycling out to the Coast Highway, andin Mexico, I sort of met two guys and ended up cycling a little bitof Mexico with them. And it was it was just a mental relief,because suddenly, like men weren't looking at me, or I wasn'thaving to analyze like, everywhere I stopped. Looking around, youknow, to see, right, well, who's in there? Can I go in there? Who'swatching me? And when we broke off, suddenly it all came back, andI was having to pay so much more attention to my surroundings andmy environment. To make these split second decisions, you know, whoyou meet up with, who you're sharing a room with? Or who you know,who you're chatting to in the bar? Do I trust them? Am I safe withthem. All of this analysis, and it's this, it is this fear. And sodon't get me wrong. There's lots of different barriers and elementsthat make women scared and fearful. And some of them are external,and some of them are internal.
Sarah Williams 21:25
I think also for a lot of women, it's for me, certainly, Iobviously I've tried not to generalize, because it is different forfor all women, because, you know, look, I'm white middle class,it's very different if you're a black woman, or a brown woman orfrom a minority, it definitely would be completely different. Butfrom my perspective, it's those fears of judgment, or what arepeople gonna think of me? What are they thinking about me? So Ithink that there's a lot of different routes, which filter intothese levels of fear. And it's, it's never one thing. And sometimesyou've just got to chip away at the one barrier, which is stoppingyou. Sometimes it's still also it's things like it's, it's a lackof knowledge, but that's not from a negative place. That's from alack of opportunity that you haven't been exposed to these things.You know, I was very fortunate I was doing Duke of Edinburgh when Iwas fourteen-fifteen-sixteen years old. And so I was really openedup to that world. I knew about backpacking, camping and hiking.I've had these experiences or, you know, if you've been a member ofthe Girl Guides, or the Scouts and you'd have these opportunities.But if you haven't, then you know, it's another barrier that youhave to have to end up overcoming. So yeah, multifaceted, verydifferent, depending on the on the individual. But yeah, so I'vegone off at a complete tangent there.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 22:45
No, you haven't. It's fascinating. And you know, I had a bit ofa teary moment there because I know that although I had a lovelychildhood, where I was able to run off into the fields and gowalking, if I wanted to, I also did grow up with those messages of'oh, no, you shouldn't do that', and 'mind that' and 'watch, watchwhere you're going because these people around' and other thingslike well, you know, 'don't go near the ditches because there's aman in there that will come and pull your legs down'. And these arestories that are passed on through families, and, you know, thatmessage that I was told was told to me to keep me away from theditch because if I fall in it, it might be harmful. So it's told asa story, but actually that then created a huge fear in me of thesestill waters because the Somerset ditches are like ditches not likeditches we have everywhere else because they're really wide anddeep and still, and they're covered with duck weed. And they'rejust they're just, yeah, quite freaky. But so yeah, that that hasonly been recently that I realised that that's where that fearcomes from. So yeah, these messages are very powerful. And we don'trealise what we're doing with our children when we tell them.
Sarah Williams 24:08
Even with little girls like, 'don't get dirty', 'don't do that'.Don't you know you? They're just treated different than littleboys, which were maybe encouraged to take on more risks and moreadventure.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 24:22
Absolutely. So do you have a role model yourself, Sarah,somebody that you look to for inspiration or for advice? I mean, itmight be a physical mentor, somebody that you speak to on a regularor ad-hoc basis or it might just be somebody that you follow in, inthe media or in social media? Is there somebody that gives youinspiration because you are massively inspirational for us, but whoinspires you?
Sarah Williams 24:57
I have, I mean, so so many women inspire me, like the women thatI've interviewed, the stories that they shared are just aweinspiring. Like what they've done. What they've achieved is, isincredible. And it's always really difficult to single somebodyout. But I definitely had this connection, almost straightaway, Igot introduced to Rosie Swale-Pope, who's this wonderful, wonderful,wonderful lady. I remember the first time I spoke to her inNovember 2019, or maybe a couple months beforehand, and it wasnothing like thatI'd ever experienced, because Rosie just talks andshares and, and she, she likes to talk and, you know I like to talkbut I also I love to listen as well. And hearing her speak andRosie was running from Brighton over to Kathmandu in Nepal and atthe time she was seventy-three or seventy-four years young. She'srun around the world and she's done all these crazy, amazingadventures and we just really connected. Listening to her and Ithink I was just so inspired by Rosie's life and what she'd done.You mentioned the Lycian Way, so I was out in Turkey at that time,I finished the Lycian Way and Rosie was in Istanbul, too. So I waswith my with my friend Kat and we went and met Rosie.
Sarah Williams 26:13
And it was just this I don't know, it was just it was likemeeting like a kindred spirit and just somebody who's just so fullof love and joy and optimism and her way of living, her way oflooking at the world. We went on this night out, she sleeps in thislittle cart called Ice Chick and she leaves her trainers outsideand in the morning she woke up and she messaged me saying "OhSarah, somebody's stolen my trainers". Obviously she needs thetrainers to run, but it just doesn't faze her anyway, sheeventually she came across the guy who's wearing her trainers. ButRosie's so kind, her thought process is not how it impacts 'me'.But it's like, well, he needed shoes. That's why he took them Itwasn't from a negative place. It was it was from this place of justalmost survival. And so eventually I think she got her trainersback but either bought him a pair of shoes or gave him a pair ofwellington boots or something that she had, but just had her joy infor living and we carried on keeping in contact after that. And wewould speak on the phone and have these little WhatsApp chats andRosie eventually ended up coming back to the to the UK because ofbecause of COVID and she ended up, this was in 2020, she ended uprunning LEJOG, so from Land's End to John O'Groats. And as she wasrunning up it was during September and I was like 'Rosie! You gotto come and stay.' And she was like, 'I'd love to come and stay andmeet your wonderful family!' And so she came and stayed for mybirthday - was that last year? Yeah, I think it was like yeah, andso you know, Rosie came to stay, she's met my family and she's justthis incredible woman who's just just amazing. So we do have theselike regular conversations, and I did another Facebook Liveinterview with her. So she's just an incredible role model and Ithink part of that is because I want to be that fit. I want to bethat healthy. I want to be that strong. I want to be thatresilient, when I'm in my seventies. That is the type of life thatI want to be living. She's just somebody... yeah, I'm probably justsaying the same thing over again, because she's so, so inspiring.The other lady as well, who, who I've spoken to a few times, Iwouldn't say that she's like, she's not like my mentor, but I thinkI really want her to be but I haven't got the courage to say look,can we speak on a more regular basis? but is Roz Savage. Roz Savage was the first woman to rowthe the Indian Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean.And, and I think one of the things that I love about her story isthat I see myself in her as well. So she worked in, she was amanagement consultant until she was thirty-eight. So slightly olderthan me, before she packed it all in and made this massive changein her life. But I look at her and what she's done and think well,I've almost got like a five-year headstart on her, you look whatshe's achieved. And with the books that she's written, the workthat she's done, the challenges that she's done, I love her again,how she's lived her life, this very alternative life. And so Ithink for me, like Roz and Rosie are very, very inspiring.Definitely sort of role models, but actually, I haven't, I wouldn'tsay that I've properly got like a full-on mentor, but it issomething that I would love to have. I almost feel as though, notthat I'm breaking new ground in this area. But because with thepodcast and the adventures, like podcasting is so sort of new andniche, there's sort of nobody else. I mean, there are the peopledoing it now but there's nobody who were like ahead of me. I don'tthink I know it's not a race and it's not about comparison. And soI sort of looked at mentors as more of them around like theadventure piece and around how they choose to live their life. Butyeah, I am so lucky because my social media is amazing. I knowthere's a lot of rubbish that goes on in social media, but mine'sjust full of these amazing women, like ALL women, doing challengesand adventures and cycling and swimming the English Channel anddoing sailing and running and planning and preparing and, and it'sjust it's just like this massive inspiration fest where it's justlike, oooh, that sounds good and oh my goodness.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 30:07
I get so much from watching them do that, don't you?
Zoe Langley-Wathen 30:10
Yeah and so just filling your social media with those sort ofpeople. Not the people that are hanging their dirty washing out,you know on the line, but it's the people, the people that areinspiring you with their zest for life really. Their, 'I want to dothis', their ability to carry out more challenges.
Sarah Williams 30:10
Yeah!
Sarah Williams 30:26
But things like 100 Mappy Days, watching you grow with HeadRightOutand how that's grown and developed from the initial idea to whereit is now and it's amazing. Even Frankie, Frankie Dewar, with Extraordinary Ordinary You, likeseeing that journey that she's gone on. And Joe Moseley with the paddleboarding and inspiringwomen over the age of 50, and then starting her podcast. There's so many womenwho it just seems to be exploding but just in such a positive way.And my challenge is I don't know if it is, it is actuallyexploding, getting bigger and more women are doing this, or I'mjust so immersed in the world that that's all I see. So I don'tknow if my blinkers are on and maybe it isn't as big as I think itis.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 31:14
I think I'm in the same place as you because I've said to acouple of people in the past that you know, people either eithermet on the towpath, or people I've been chatting to elsewhere. Isaid, Oh yes, it's these really famous people or this reallywell-known woman that's doing X, Y, Z. You know, Rosie Swale-Pope,for example, and they say, 'Who?' And I say, 'What do you mean, youdon't know her?!' I read Rosie's book, probably four years ago now.And then Mike read it as well. And we were just completely blownaway by her. That was the first time I've actually read or heardanything about Rosie. And yes, I've been following her ever sinceand would totally agree that she is an absolute inspiration. Idon't want to keep reusing this word inspiration, but there are somany women out there who just fill you with that kick, that nudge,that poke that you need it's like, gosh, if they can do this, whycan't I? You know, I really need to be able to jump into that arenaand give it a go. Because there are so many things that I have saidto myself in the past. Oh, no, I couldn't do that. And then it'slike, well, why couldn't you, Zoe? Why couldn't you? So yes, and Ilove it, that there are so many women out there that are that aretelling us that message, that are giving us that message of supportand encouragement to go ahead and do it.
Sarah Williams 32:35
I'm going to say, I think this is the power of women's voices.Because for so long, especially with like you know, it's always thepower of the internet for this for so long with like mainstreammedia, the radio, the TV, the newspaper, what we were exposed towas who had the power and the control of the mainstream media,which was white men. And so women's voices weren't being heard.Their stories weren't being shared. And so actually with theinternet, the middle men and have been removed. You know, women canstart blogs, they can share their social media. You can't get onthe radio, you can start a podcast. Women aren't being on TV, youstart a YouTube channel. You can take control of the narrative andthe stories because I want to hear women's stories. I want to hearwomen's voices, I am desperate to hear these things. Because tothink you know, growing up in the eighties and nineties, it wasjust men's stories, men's voices. History, 'his story' that womenand girls grew up with. And we need these voices. We need thefilms, the books, everything, because Stacey Copeland said thatpassion, if you can't see it, you can't become it. And I'd alwaysfollow that on if you can't, well, how did they do? It is brilliantseeing women in these positions, but actually, it's the how, howdid they do it? Like? How do they pay for it? How did they decideon the challenge? What did they do when they did fail? How do theydeal with all those setbacks? And so, yeah, women's voices for thewin!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 33:56
Definitely. So, even though you might not have a personalmentor, I still think that, you know, we can have mentors that arefrom afar, you know, they might not know they're our mentors, butthey they definitely are. So what would you say, was the best pieceof advice or quote that you might have ever gained from one ofthose women that inspire you? Is there something that sticks withyou?
Sarah Williams 34:22
I think one of the... well, there's a couple of things. One isabout... I don't necessarily think this is for a woman, I thinkthis is from a man, so somebody else who's inspired me maybe morelike the marketing side and building a business, building a brandis this guy, I think I mentioned to you is called Gary Vaynerchuk.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 34:43
Yes.
Sarah Williams 34:44
And the key thing that I remember thinking about was just abouthaving to think long term. And I think Tony Robbins said that, you know peopleoverestimate what they can achieve in a year and underestimate whatthey can achieve in a decade. And I think that's really helped meto view things. From this really sort of long term perspective asin, I used to be very, very impatient many years ago, you know Idecide what I wanted to go after, and I expected it to happen like,straightaway, I couldn't understand why, you know, things weren'thappening. And now I probably matured or my patience level hasgrown into an extent where I know things that they do take time.And so I think for me, one of the biggest things, just having thislong term perspective, so I don't think in for Tough GirlChallenges I've never thought in terms of just a couple of years,I've always thought of like, what's it going to be like, in tenyears and fifteen years time, when I've got one thousand episodesof the Tough Girl Podcast, when women are like, well, I want to goto visit the poles, okay. Well, I've spoken to every woman who'sbeen to the poles who's alive. Or they want to go and cycle thetranscontinental, I've spoken to all the women who've done it.Women, they've got these stories, and we can also follow theirjourney as well. So speaking to women, the example like Anna McNuffspeaking to her after her New Zealand cycle, and speakingto her after her South American adventure and speaking to her afterher Barefoot Britain challenge. Sothere's almost this historical journey that can be tracked as wellfor these women to see. Look, they didn't just end up climbingMount Everest. Like this is how they started, this is theirjourney, this is their progress. And so thinking long term, beingpatient, I think that's, that's probably the best advice that I'veever heard is, you know, be patient show up every day. There's agreat book as well, it sort of links in with this, it's calledThe Slight Edge. I always forgetthe author's name, Jeff, Jeff, something or other.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 36:34
We can find it.
Sarah Williams 36:35
Yeah, but it's basically about being consistent. Like, like hesaid, it's showing up every day. It's, you know, putting out theepisodes, putting out the content, being proactive on social media,engaging. So I've said that again. But yeah, being patient thinkinglong term, I think, is incredibly powerful. Because, you know, evenHeadRightOut. Where are you going to be in 10 years time? It'samazing to think about, with the podcast now. So in 2021, you know,you could have... I'm trying to do my mental maths..., one episodea week... you could have nearly 500 episodes out.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 37:11
Wow.
Sarah Williams 37:11
The more women that you've connected with, and shared with, themore stories that have been told, the more voices that have gottenout there. And I think that's sometimes what keeps me going is thatthinking long term, and also thinking about the legacy I want toleave behind.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 37:25
That legacy, what you were saying then, something just clickedin my head. And it wasn't the word legacy but it was like library,it was wealth, wealth of information. You know, you're not justinspiring the women of today, it's the women of the future. It'sthe young girls, it's the children that haven't even been born. Andhaving that hub, that place that people can go to, to hear thosestories, that wealth of information is just absolutely imperative.We need that. We definitely need that.
Sarah Williams 38:03
I didn't know about the Appalachian Trail or the ContinentalTrail Divide, or that women could go and cycle the Pacific Coast. Ididn't know about these adventures and challenges. And now I thinkgrowing up, hopefully, these young girls who are you know,seventeen-eighteen and maybe want to take gap years or you know,making these decisions about their life. They can listen to thesewomen saying, actually, you know, I don't need to go straight on touniversity. I don't need to get a job doing this. Actually, I canfollow my passions and my interest and have faith that it will allturn out right in the end. And yeah, it's exciting for me thatgirls are going to grow up with these voices and also being able tosee their role models on TV or watch them on YouTube. I think itjust opens so many doors. So yeah, really exciting, really excitingtime.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 38:48
And you are definitely flying that flag, Sarah, so fabulous.Right. I'm going to switch now into a different tone. So I turnedfifty this year and there is also another big birthday this year.In the same year, in fact, this week we are recording this today.Is it the eighth it must be Yes, it's the eighth of Septembertoday. 2021. And in two day's time, there's a rather big eventhappening, Sarah Williams. Sarah, what happens on Friday?
Sarah Williams 39:23
Well it's the 10th of September and I'm turning forty!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 39:28
Yay!
Sarah Williams 39:30
It's amazing. And I'm so happy and content and excited becausealso, I don't know how turning thirty was for you. But turningthirty for me was just the most horrendous experience. It wasawful. Like I wasn't where I wanted to be in my life. I just feltlike why aren't I married? Why don't I have kids and all of thissort of thing and honestly I wasn't very content with with otherareas of my life. And to me now, like turning forty, a) to behonest, I think it's actually it's a real privilege to age like,I've really thought about this a lot, you know, especially when youlose friends, when, when you're, like, I lost a good friend when Iwas eighteen. And, you know, losing friends throughout the years,you think, wow, it's actually it's a privilege to get to this age,it's a privilege to grow older. But even more, so it's just, it'swhere my life is now. So things that I dreamed about, you know, allthose years ago, when I was in South America, on these buses, aboutthe type of life that I wanted to lead, I am leading that life. Ihave designed this life that works for me, and I do get to work onthese adventures and challenges I can work from anywhere in theworld, as long as I have Wi-Fi and a laptop and a mobile phone.I'm, I'm super good. And so I just feel so content, happy, joyful,just really, just in a really good space. And just also just reallyexcited about the next decade, like just wanting to be strong, fitand healthy and spend the next ten years just really maximizinglife and challenges and getting out there and just, you know,living life to the full and living life on my terms and having thisfreedom of choice and freedom of where to go. It's so yeah, turningforty is just, it's an honor, like, I'm like, I don't know.Haha!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 41:22
That makes me so happy to hear because, you know, there are somany women that... I see it on social media. You know they'resaying, 'oh my gosh, I'm hitting forty' or 'oh, my gosh, I'mhitting fifty', particularly this year, because my school year, youknow, we all hit our fiftieth this year or end of last year. Andfor the most part, most people are enjoying it and realising thatthere's absolutely no difference but you know, there are some thatlike 'oh my gosh, I'm over the hill' and it's just trying to say'no, you're not, this is just the start. This is this is the startof the next chapter, the next stage'. And what you've done isyou've set yourself up to transition into that stage with apositive attitude and with making sure you've got all your toolsthere. And it's such an exciting time. And that's what really, Imean, I wanted to have you on the podcast ages ago anyway, but Ihad decided in my head that I wanted to interview midlife women.Midlife and up. And you weren't forty at that point. And I thoughtwell, here we go. This is an ideal opportunity to introduce you tomidlife and introduce you to other midlife women and other youngerwomen who are going to be looking forward to coming into midlife.You know with such positivity, so yes. Happy Birthday in advancefor Friday.
Sarah Williams 42:53
Thank you.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 42:54
So let's talk about then what you've been doing for the lastcouple of months, actually for the last month, and coming on intoSeptember. So I know that your series, your adventure series, is tocelebrate the sixth birthday of the Tough Girl Podcast, but I'massuming it's kind of around your birthday as well to helpcelebrate your fortieth birthday? Would you like to share?
Sarah Williams 43:18
Well I've got something else for my fortieth, which I haven'tshared, but I can share that with you.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 43:22
That's exciting. A nugget!
Sarah Williams 43:23
Oooh, ooh it is, it's a real gem actually. But also wouldn't itbe amazing if when we speak again, maybe in like ten years timewhen I'm turning fifty to be able to reflect back on like the nextten year journey, I think that will be so exciting
Sarah Williams 43:28
We'll aim to do a birthday bonus every ten years.
Sarah Williams 43:39
Yes!! That would be incredible because it would just reflect onthe journey. But I mean the Tough Girl... obviously 2020 was justsuch a tough year and I very fortunately I started my year inAustralia walking the Overland Track and then in March I literallyflew back into the country before I got locked down and so therehasn't been any travel and adventure for me for quite a long time.And and for me I wanted to be double vaccinated. I wanted it to bemore appropriate for me to go and travel and adventure. And a partof my way of coping was planning adventures and challenges and Iwas looking around the UK of the different walks and the NationalTrails and there's a HUGE amount to do especially in the UK witheven if you just walking and cycling and everything else. I've beenthinking a lot - I haven't really ventured that much in the UK.Because as you probably know, I hate the cold weather. And our UKsummers are sometimes not the best. You have four days of sunshineand then it's rain and gray skies. But it all basically all cametogether. How did it come together? Well, actually, it also linksto Rosie because I'd been invited to this running festival calledRun Fest Run which was down in Winchester, and Rosie when she's nottravelling, she lives on like the South Downs Way. So I wasthinking, wouldn't it be lovely to catch up with Rosie on the wayand then I was thinking oh well I could walk the South Downs Way.That would be pretty great. Then I was just googling around otherwalks near Winchester, and it came up on on the Cicerone websiteabout the Pilgrims Way. And that goes from Winchester to, I wasgoing to say Eastbourne, but it's not. It's Canterbury. And then Ihave a friend in London who I wanted to catch up with, and then Irealised, 'oh my auntie, she lives in Guildford'! That's literallyon the way. So, you know, when things... I believe in...serendipity when things start to fit together. I've been wanting todo a walk with another girl called Alex Mason, who's a phenomenaladventure and hiker. And we've been in contact for many years, butnever actually met. And we were we were talking about walking LEJOGin April of this year. But the timing didn't work and COVID wasstill all over the place. So that didn't come across. And so I justmentioned to her that, hey, I'm thinking of doing the AngleseyCoastal Path, would you be free? She was like, yes! She was coming.She had just walked Hadrian's Wall. So she was coming back down.And so it all started to come together. So we ended up walkingAnglesey Coastal Path, which was incredible and beautiful andamazing, with the stunning scenery and wild camping and thisseven-eight day adventure, which was just pretty brutal, because Ihadn't had my backpack on for quite a while. And so you know, thefirst couple of days while your body's adapting and feeling supersore. So we did the Anglesey Coastal Path and I'm filming it andvlogging it as well, so there are all these videos that'll becoming out in the next couple of months.
Sarah Williams 46:25
But it's just nice to be honest, to be out in nature again, andto be around people and to be walking. I like achievingthings and so to feel as though I'm actually achieving something.So yes, I've just finished my third trail. So I've done theAnglesey Coastal Path. I walked the South Downs Way, one hundredmiles from Eastbourne to Winchester, and I've just come back fromthe Pilgrims Way, which was really, really beautiful and stunning.And so I'll have a little bit of break and then I'll be heading upto Scotland to walk the West Highland Way, climb Ben Nevis and thendo the Great Glen Way.
Sarah Williams 46:57
But I mentioned about for my 40th, and I've been thinking a lotabout this, I'm thinking by the time I reach the Great Glen Way,I'm gonna be pretty fit. I feel pretty strong and fit. I did alittle bit of running actually with my pack, which was awesome, onthe Pilgrims Way. And I was thinking, well, the Great Glen Way isbasically seventy-eight miles running from Fort William over toInverness, and it's pretty flat. And I was thinking, well, maybewhen I finish that, I've got two options. And I'm almost... I'mactually going to talk about them, because I think that's apowerful way of getting the story out there. I was thinking, couldI do the Great Glen Way in a day? Could I? When I say a day, I meanlike continuously. So just start at like, four or five in themorning. Just see how long it takes me to walk seventy-eight miles.So that was option one, which I don't know, it's just ridiculous.Because the longest I've ever done is is when I ran fifty-two mileson the Marathon des Sables. And then the other option I wasthinking of is wouldn't it be awesome to maybe do forty miles? Idon't know, that seems more attainable, maybe a little bit morerealistic. And then like, you know, to celebrate my fortiethbirthday walking forty miles along the Great Glen Way. This isafter - I will have already walked it in one direction. So I willfinished all the six challenges. This is just for for fun. Evenmore, an extra. And then I think well I try both of them. So Icould say yeah, like start with the forty-miler, see how I get on,see how my body's doing? And then see if I'm like, 'okay, let'sjust push on'.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 48:27
Just go for it. It is like an ultra marathon and there arepeople who walk ultramarathons across this continuous. Yes, yes.That sounds amazing. And I don't see any reason why you won't beable to achieve that.
Sarah Williams 48:46
Well I should give it a go.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 48:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Sarah Williams 48:49
Well, the challenge is more having the backpack because thebackpack is pretty, I've got pretty lightweight equipment becauseI'd have my tent and sleeping gear and all of that sort of stuffwith me. So it wouldn't properly be fast packing. But as long as myfood wasn't too heavy, and I kept my water weight down. I'd have toget regular water on the way.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 49:12
Would you consider doing it supported, or do you want to do itunsupported? Do you want to just go back and carry on?
Sarah Williams 49:18
I want to do unsupported? Yeah, I suppose I just don't likehaving to rely on other people if that makes sense. Where it's justlike, I want it to be about me. Just me having to figure this outand having that internal battle, like 'Sarah, if you're hurting andyou're in pain, like you should stop, just stop, put your tent up'and then the other Sarah saying 'no! Carry on, you're committed!'Walk the forty miles and then finish, it's like oh, how are youfeeling? Check in with myself and then carry on. So that's onething because I need to go back to Fort William anyway. So yeah,are the dogs barking again?
Sarah Williams 49:24
I don't know what's going on out there! It's like, it's apack!
Sarah Williams 49:57
They're excited. They're excited about my challengingadventure!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 50:01
I think they're hounds. They look like...
Sarah Williams 50:06
Yeah, I can hear them now quite, yeah.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 50:08
I mean, we normally get interruptions with a dog barking, butthis is like a pack of them. But yes, I think they are hugelyexcited about your plans. I think that sounds wonderful. And it's,it's got to be something that you can [snigg*rs] pick on, it's gotto be something that you can just go with and say, 'right, I can dothis'. And then at the point where you think, actually, 'you knowwhat, no, I can't do it any more', like, as you said, you can thenbattle you can negotiate, you can self coach, you can talk yourselfthrough. And I think that's, you know, as we both know, that'swhere the biggest learning in our lives happens. And we could saythat Sarah Williams has done X, Y, Z, and A, B, C, over the lastseven years of challenges, what more has she got to challengeherself with? But we have always got things to challenge ourselveshaven't we? I think that's what I've learned is that there is neveran end to raising that bar and challenging yourself and seeing howfar you can go, just stepping just that little bit further beyondwhat you're capable of each time. And I love that you havingcompleted all these six challenges, when you've done it are stilllooking to make that challenge stretch a little bit further just tosee what you're capable of.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 51:39
Okay, so this is fabulous. I am kind of thinking that we need towrap up a little bit now. But there's some things I want to askyou. And one of them in particular is what do you fear? BecauseSarah that I know, IS resilient. She is confident. She's ago-getter. She's a, 'I'm gonna do this, I'm a come what may, I'mgoing to have a go at this, and just see what happens'. So, but arethere things that you fear? And if so, how do you deal withthem?
Sarah Williams 52:18
It's such a good question. And I do think about this a lot. AndI don't know if I necessarily have fears, or it's more like I justhave very strong dislikes. So I hate being cold and wet. But it'snot, it's not a fear of mine, like because I've been cold and wetand I know I can handle it. I just really dislike it and find itvery unpleasant. It's not something that I would ever choose to do,or but like on the Anglesey Coastal Path, it rained for three orfour out of the seven days or whatever. What do I fear? I don'tknow, I don't know that I...? That's not a good answer. Because Idon't think there's anything that I necessarily fear. I mean,there's things which I've thought about, but then I choose notthink about it anymore, like I'm fearful of being in a situation,like a natural environment situation that I can't control. So beingcaught in a fire, or being in an avalanche-type situation. Yet, Ithink it's that in terms of things which you're in the wrongsituation at the wrong time. For example, if you were at EverestBase Camp when the when the earthquake happened, I think... butagain, I'm not... I'm not... am I fearful of that? Because also,that's something I don't have any control over, so there's no pointin being fearful of something I have no control over. I don't thinkI have a good answer to this question. Because I don't think I'mnecessarily fearful of... not of anything. I'm sure I am, likefear. But no, sorry.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 53:50
That's okay. I think actually what you've said, Sarah makes alot of sense. Because it might be that you're not fearful. Whatyou're doing, you've reframed what would be fear for other people,you've reframed it as something else. And so you ignore it, or ifyou can't change it, because, for example, some people might notchoose to travel to a country where earthquakes happen a lot,because they don't want to get caught up in an earthquake. But, youknow, if you're going to do that, you know, you might end up notgoing to Japan or San Francisco, for example, because there arerecords of many earthquakes there. But you're saying, well,actually, it's not in my control. So therefore, I don't worry aboutit. So your reframing of that fear means that it's no longer afear.
Sarah Williams 54:43
I think that's pretty accurate.
Sarah Williams 54:45
Yeah. Yeah. Because there are situations that you can end up inwhich is just bad timing. You're in the wrong place at the wrongtime. Like when I was, we were talking about this the other day,actually, when when I was 20, I was over in New York before theTwin Towers. So I was actually right opposite the buildings whenthey came down. I was in New Jersey, and I was meant to be flyingout on the 12th of September, and couldn't actually get in contactwith my... because all the phone lines were down... wasn't able toconnect with my parents. I was stuck in the New Jersey side. Whatdo we do? I think I was too young to really understand it. Butthat's wrong time wrong place like and you've got no control overthat. You've got the only thing you can control is your actionsmaybe around that situation and how you respond to thesituation.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 54:45
Yeah,
Zoe Langley-Wathen 55:36
Sounds to me, like you've got a good toolbox, you've goteverything, all the equipment you need in there to handle what lifethrows at you. And I think that's really healthy.
Sarah Williams 55:48
Oh, I hope so.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 55:49
Yeah, yeah, no, it's amazing. Okay, so the final question, andthis is the question that I ask everybody, Sarah, is, do you have aHeadRightOut moment? I'm collecting moments, I'm collectingscenarios or situations where you've been in that place whereyou've really had to step out your comfort zone. It might not havebeen something that you were frightened of necessarily. But haveyou had to step out of your comfort zone are you able to recall andretell that for us, for the benefit of our listeners?
Sarah Williams 56:25
Yeah, I think one of the... so when I first started with ToughGirl Challenges, I wanted to launch myself onto the adventurescene, and one of the ways to do that is to take on this big scaryphysical challenge. And like I've mentioned before, you know, I'drun multiple marathons before. I'd run London Marathon like fivetimes, so I knew that 26.2 miles was massively inside my my comfortzone, but running further than that, and running multipleback-to-back marathons and across the Sahara Desert was somethingwhich was so far outside my comfort zone. That you know, it scaredme. I got the butterflies in my stomach, but my HeadRightOut momentwas how I messed up. So the first time round, I was meant to dothis in 2015. And I ended up overtraining, chronic fatigue,bed-bound, my hair was falling out, I had severe acne on my faceand my shoulders, my weight was dropping, my left eye wasdeteriorating, like I'd had like a panic attack. There's a lotgoing on health-wise, and I was still thinking I'd be able to goahead and do this race. You have to get an ECG done, and you haveto get a doctor's note and a sign off. And it was literally like,you cannot do this race, like you are not well enough to do thisrace. But mentally, I'm like, 'yes, I can!'. But I couldn't,physically I was, I was exhausted. If I brushed my teeth. That wasa massive achievement for the whole day. I would go downstairs toeat dinner with my sunglasses on because it was too bright. I wouldliterally go down, eat food, get up back to bed, and I was done.But for me, the HeadRightOut moment was was once I was better,living with this fear that if I pushed myself physically too hard,that I was going to revert back to that space where I was. And thatscared me. That worried me, because I'd never wanted to return tofeeling that ill, that tired and that demotivated, and thatrundown. And I postponed the race for a year, and luckily I hadinsurance, so that was all good.
Sarah Williams 58:16
But going for the race again, for me, it changed in my head, thespace where I wanted to be, it wasn't about finishing the race. Forme, it was actually just getting to the start line. Just getting tothe start line, fit, strong and healthy. And that was a key moment,just getting to the start line. And then I just enjoyed myself forthe race and we had a brilliant time and loved it. And I you know,I was in my element running in the sunshine and the heat, but itwas also finishing the race and getting the medal round around myneck that was another 'drawing a line in the sand' moment. WhereasI think I've proven to myself, well Sarah, you stepped outside yourcomfort zone. You headed out there. You've got yourself in thatmental space where you COULD do it. You did push your body, youpushed your body hard. You ran multiple marathons, you ran thatfifty-two miles in a day, and actually you're not broken. You'restill fit, you're still strong. And actually this is your newstarting point. This is your new life that you want to build, youCAN do big physical challenges. And so I think those were reallyprobably those two moments like that first initial failure almostknowing how to step up again to put myself back in the samesituation and beat the feeling that scared and worried about whatif I do revert back... and then not reverting back and acceptingthat actually I can do this and being just really proud of myself,and just thinking yeah, you do you know what, I've donereally well in this situation and that this is my (as cheesy as itsounds), this is my new life. This is my new way of living and it'sjust exciting and wonderful and joyful and yay!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 59:59
It sounds pivotal, absolutely pivotal, that moment. And I thinkwhat I've learned over the years now, particularly in teaching isthat those moments of I don't like saying 'failure', but thosemoments of where things didn't go as we planned, are such massivelearning stages. And so many women and girls don't want to facethose, they don't want to be in touch with that failure side, thatthey don't want to feel like it's all gone wrong. But those are themost important times. And what you've just recounted to us is thatthat is a building block for success. And so many times, we havetried to do something and it's not gone the way we wanted it to, wehave then just gradually built up to a place where we can becausewe've then got the knowledge. And you had the knowledge about yourbody and what you were capable of. And yeah, what you knew youshouldn't be doing with overtraining is, yeah, is an amazing story.And I love that story of your the Marathon des Sables training,first time around, and second time around. So thank you, thank youso much for sharing that.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:01:10
Well, Sarah, we've come to the end of our conversation. I'msure...
Sarah Williams 1:01:16
Noooo! Let's keep on talking!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:01:17
We probably will after this... I'm sure there's gonna be a lotof women listening to this that would love to know, if they don'talready know you, where they can find out more about you. Whereshould they go?
Sarah Williams 1:01:29
Oh, please go visit toughgirlchallenges.com. It is basically the maincentral hub. There is more information about me and my differentchallenges. But it's also like Zoe mentioned before, it lists thislibrary and this resource of incredible women and their stories.And it's broken down by year, but just scroll through and you willfind the cyclists and runners and sailors and oh, I've tried toget... who else... rugby players and boxers and kick boxers, andathletes, and Olympians, and grandmas, and just incredible women.So you know, have a look through their stories. But if you visittoughgirlchallenges.com,all of the information is there. New episodes of the podcast golive every Tuesday and Thursday at 7 am, UK time. So you can followme on Instagram @ToughGirlChallenges. You will literally bebombarded with amazing women doing awesome challenges. So if you'reneeding that little bump, that little added extra inspiration andmotivation, then you can find it on the Tough Girl Podcast. It's allfree to listen to. So there's probably over 450-470 odd episodesnow, out there, so...
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:02:32
Amazing
Sarah Williams 1:02:33
That's a lot of me... a lot of me... a lot of my voice... a lotof my content...
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:02:36
...and a lot of other people as well. And it is fabulous. Andthis is my opportunity to say thank you to you, Sarah for startingme off on my podcast journey because you introduced me to listeningto podcasts. You then introduced me to speaking on podcasts, whenyou invited me to come and be a guest on the Tough Girl Podcastback in 2017, I think that was, and then again a couple of yearslater. And then you kept encouraging me and you know, just sowingthat seed that I could do this, myself. You know, you should starta podcast, you should. And you just kept telling me this. Andeventually it's like 'yes, I've got to do this'. So thank you,Sarah. Yes, I've got you to thank.
Sarah Williams 1:03:20
Well, no, thank you and a massive well done for starting yourpodcast. I'm so proud of you. I would just say always remember, Iran that workshop in 2018. And I remember hearing you speak for thefirst time and I was literally just blown away by your story andyour voice and your storytelling. And even then I was thinking youhave to start a podcast!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:03:38
Awww bless you. Thank you. Well, Sarah Williams, thank you somuch for coming on the HeadRightOut Podcast. (I nearly said theTough Girl Podcast!) And have a very, very happy birthday onFriday. Happy 40th. Welcome to midlife! You are going to absolutelysmash it. I know.
Sarah Williams 1:04:01
Oh, thank you so much. It's been awesome chatting to you andjust so much fun and bring on midlife, like Oh My God, I'mexcited!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:04:08
Yeah, fabulous!
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:04:16
My goodness, I hope you enjoyed that episode. As much as I didit. We had such a blast talking. And when Sarah and I get together,we always chat a lot. And yeah, it just felt so fulfilling and sorich to be able to go over some of those things with her. Now,apologies for the sound quality. This is the nature of living on anarrowboat. We do get disturbances from time to time, which wecan't help. Unfortunately, I also have a mobile router, which meansthat my Wi-Fi is mobile, it's not connected, you know hardwired inso occasionally it does dip in and out. I'd hoped that it was goingto be a little bit stronger than that, that particular day. I'm nowrecording in a room, in a house, so I've moved location to do thislittle recording. And unfortunately, we have got a different soundquality again, because it's echoing I'm trying to avoid thathappening. But we're here for a few weeks now. So I need toobviously work on trying to get that particular sound ambienceright in here.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:05:22
So my takeaways from that recording, I find Sarah's willingnessto try new things and her honesty about why she isn't fearful ofdoing new stuff to be truly thought provoking. I think the keythere is that she may feel fear or she might be uncertain aboutdoing stuff, but she knows how to deal with it, instead of closingthe door on a potential opportunity. And that's what I love and whyI've been advocating the Tough Girl Podcast for so long now. I justfind that my inspiration tank gets refuelled so many times by theTough Girl Podcast. So why wouldn't I want to shout about it, and,of course the lovely Sarah.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:06:06
So the next two episodes of the HeadRightOut Podcast will bewith Helen Jenkins, who is the founder of Blorenge SUP, here inSouth Wales. That's a smashing little episode. And we've also gotCherry Hamrick, who is an uber adventurer, a 73-year old who hasbeen walking every day now for hundreds, and I mean literallyhundreds of days. So I hope you will join us for that.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:06:32
Don't forget to hit the follow button or subscribe in whicheverpodcast app you are listening to this to. I would love for you toshare the podcast with a friend to help us grow. And as we weretalking about multi-day hikes today with Sarah, if you are thinkingabout going off on a multi-day hike yourself, I would love torecommend for you to head over... see what I did there... to theHeadRightOut website where you can download a free guide from mecalled Packing For a Multi-Day Hike. I list in there, all thethings that I carry when I go off on my own long-distanceadventures, and there is a kit list, with all of the weights of theitems as well. Okay, hopefully you will find that useful.
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:07:17
So we're going to finish with a quote from Sarah from theepisode that you've just listened to. This is my takeaway quote,which I just resonate with 100%. "Go on a long distance walk. Bealone. Know that you can survive and get through it. It's soempowering. And that's how you build that confidence. Knowing youcan go out there and look after yourself. You've got the tools andthe skills to do it."
Zoe Langley-Wathen 1:07:50
Amen. Hallelujah. 100%, thank you Sarah Williams. Okay, well,that's it from me for this episode. Thank you for tuning in andlistening to the HeadRightOut Podcast. And I hope to see you nexttime. Take care. HeadRightOut Hugs to you all.
